Curse

Ozric · Dec 04, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Still enjoying DoA here. Sorry to see so many still riled up about it. Guess I just like a tough fight better than some. Also like to see that there's at least somewhere in Elona that people aren't trying to bring those silly heroes with them. Finally get to play GW as a multiplayer game again. Now that the district count there has gone down in DoA, the IQ level of those that remain seems to have gone up quite a bit, and chewing through the baddies is not so much of a chore anymore. Got the first part of the quest done!

DoA isn't the prettiest place we've seen as far as elite missions go, but it sure beats FoW from what I've seen thus far. I'm happy that there is this one place where those pve people that like a challenge can go.

Put Razah where ya like him, in fact take all my heroes, I've blown too much gold on them already and they never seem to do what I'd like for them to do.

LB Rank discrimination? Well I hadn't seen any of it. Just requests that everyone bring gaze if that. It's handy to keep the Rangers from Trolling but I can do better for that slot in the way of damage, but I'm only LB Rank 2.

I'm calling DoA home for awhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Ok, so me and an alliance member came up with an idea for a team build...any comments or suggestions welcome.
Anyway, is just an idea. Any thoughts?

Yeah sounds decent. I was thinking of how Earthbind might perform out there earlier today in fact but I was thinking of it in the context of just for an added effect for MS not Thunderclap. If you could keep them down long enough, then a nice Savannah Heat may go a long way in burning up the mobs while they're down.

Played a short trip to city today with a Blinding Surge build, but that group didn't make the cut. I felt I was getting some pretty good damage though with it as it always seemed to cut down the monks pretty easily, and blinding the warriors, dervs, and rangers. Also ran a Sandstorm build and while the AoE dmg was good, I'd always have to spam Obsi Flame to cut down the primary targets, leaving me with quite a bit of exhaustion. Good protection for myself of course though. Point of this being that SF certainly isn't the only way to go in there I don't think.

Yeah I'm sure a cookie cutter build is coming but for now things are good. I've seen just about every class in there gettin' it on so far.

lyra_song · Dec 04, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

I guess it comes down to:

FoW/UW:
Requiring favor cuts off a lot of players, but favor swings once in a while.

Deep/Urgoz:
Requiring faction control cuts off a lot of players, but you might be able to get a ferry.

DoA:
Difficulty and time constraint cuts off a lot of players. But get better and dont make plans for the weekend, and you can do it, WITHOUT NEEDING TO RELY ON SOMEONE ELSE (other than your party members)

C2K · Dec 04, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

I don't think it's elite, or hard, just cheap.
It's a quick-fix, appease-the-hardcore, sloppy solution.
Missions don't HAVE to be 5 hours long to provide a challenge. I'm sorry, but wasting my time playing poorly designed content with little to no reward at the end isn't going to happen.
ANet have proven in the past that missions CAN be challenging without having to invest a huge amount of time; indeed, they sold they whole game initially on the premise of player skill being more valuable than time spent playing.
Let's look at examples of decent challenges that don't require a huge investment of time and sloppy, aggravating trial-and-error gameplay:

Dunes of Despair Bonus: To achieve this (without relying on the hit-or-miss traversal/rebirth exploit) requires a good degree of teamwork and an open and frank discussion of tactics at the start of the mission, otherwise you WILL fail. But the mission itself takes a maximum of 30 minutes. A fantastic example.

have a guildie bond the hero, do bonus with hench, next.

Quote:

Eternal Grove Bonus: Again, to get the bonus requires careful planning and all players involved have to be on their toes to ensure that all of the objective NPCs survive. And yet again, you don't spend 5 hours doing this, it's another 30 minute mission.

Have 2 MMs. Have monks keep an eye out for NPCs in danger. Its not really that difficult to Master.

Quote:

Gyala Hatchery Bonus: Keeping those baby turtles alive requires a good team effort with a big opportunity for it to go tits up if concentration lapses. Again, 30 minutes.

There's a glitch in that mission, and everyone who knows it exploits it. Makes the bonus cake.

Quote:

I could go on, and indeed, most of the examples I would use would be bonus missions, but my point stands: these missions require skill, not endless amounts of free time.
All that DoA requires is stamina. It's a WoW raid wannabe, where the devs try and force players to spend huge chunks of time there.

So to all of these people who think they are "Elite" for having the mindless persistence to keep trying DoA, I laugh at you. You really are playing the wrong game, and by crying that it shouldn't change, you're really saying that all you want is WoW on the cheap.

I think the Elite mission are the equivalent to GvGs. It challenges you to come up with a build that dominates the opposition. Not everything might work, but there are many things that could work. DoA does require skill, thought not in an elitest sense. And it is very beatable. I thgink just about all of the areas have been cleared now.(not sure if anyone beat Mallyx yet)

Khanoute · Dec 04, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

I guess it comes down to aswell :

Longer =/= Harder or Better.

Interesting/Attractive quest mechanics (riddles, splitting, etc) > Hordes of Enraged foes thrown at you, rinse/repeat.

Elite area =/= Desertic and dark area of Blandness.

Avarre · Dec 04, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

If I'm trolling, try and disprove my argument that there's more to creating challenge in a game than requiring an inordinate investment of time...

2-3 hours per zone is inordinate?

Ninna · Dec 04, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

by crying that it shouldn't change, you're really saying that all you want is WoW on the cheap.

theres *nothing* remotely similar to WoW raiding in GW where you spend months beating the hard content

groups will be finished with DOA in less than 2 weeks

Gli · Dec 04, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

2-3 hours per zone is inordinate?

Are you kidding? That's how long it takes to even get a decent party going.

NeHoMaR · Dec 04, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

OMG my Wammo can't beat this alone, oh no!

Wahahaha!

Seriously, I am just waiting and doing different things until some "popular" build born; The only character I have in Domain of Anguish is an ele, and I really think the eles will be included in that "popular" build

Note: I LOVE the difficulty of Domain of Anguish, I even think I want a MORE difficulty; The only problem is the rest of the game is now too easy. I completed Gate of Madness alone with heroes/henchies and mastered it, and if I go and play the rest of the game with that build, it's just plain and easy; Maybe I must start doing missions with reduced team or something (better drops) or wait for new difficult areas like Domain of Anguish

Thank you!

Nexus Icon · Dec 04, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

What could they have done instead to make it worth your time?

Make these explorable areas, that as far as we know are BEFORE the actual Elite mission, achievable in smaller periods of time. Time spent and time available does NOT equate to skill.
Make interesting mobs without falling back on cheap tricks such as environment effects, pumping up their levels and giving them ridiculously overpowered skills.
Assign time limits to achieve certain tasks instead of just having the players mindlessly wading through the hordes.
Keep certain NPCs alive whilst trying to reach a destination.
You know, stuff they've done before, but I suspect is harder for them to program given all of the scripting errors they've had with such quests in the past.
I believe that's the real reason we've been given sub-par content. They just wanted to rush it out of the door, screw QA. And the easiest and quickest way to do that?
Hundreds of overpowered mobs randomly scatterred over an uninspiring landscape and simple, soulless, "Search & Destroy" gameplay.

Nexus Icon · Dec 04, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

2-3 hours per zone is inordinate?

With little to no progress to show at the end of it?
You bet your arse it's inordinate.
And as Gli said, it can take that long just to put a group together in the first place...

Nexus Icon · Dec 04, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

theres *nothing* remotely similar to WoW raiding in GW where you spend months beating the hard content

groups will be finished with DOA in less than 2 weeks

I've played WoW, and I know where I'm coming from.
I also know that the only reason it takes so long to do the high level content in WoW is so that Blizzard are guaranteed your subscription fee whilst you continually go back to "The Depths of Smeg" hoping that "Thag the Indestructible" drops his "Mighty Belt of ShegWeg".

Karlos · Dec 04, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Nexus, the Domain of Anguish IS part of the elite mission..

when you go in it flashes a nice big "Elite Mission" sign under it's name. I do not expect the part past the gate keeper to be much different. Though I would be glad to be wrong and find a 12 man party into something even harder.

Cebe · Dec 04, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I'm kind of expecting "ANet please make it harder" comments to start soon, before most people have even managed to kill one Uber-Margonite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

I even think I want a MORE difficulty

Damn I'm good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric

Yeah sounds decent. I was thinking of how Earthbind might perform out there earlier today in fact but I was thinking of it in the context of just for an added effect for MS not Thunderclap. If you could keep them down long enough, then a nice Savannah Heat may go a long way in burning up the mobs while they're down.

Well I wasn't just thinking in terms of Thunderclap either. Soul Bind for the necro also knocks down, and if you have a second ele Dragon's Stomp or MS would also... My plan was to try to keep them down as long as possible. I like the idea of taking Sandstorm or Savannah Heat to get them while they're down and helpless. Plus, if they CAN'T deal much damage then Union and Shelter might actually last longer than 2 seconds.

Ninna · Dec 04, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

I've played WoW, and I know where I'm coming from.
I also know that the only reason it takes so long to do the high level content in WoW is so that Blizzard are guaranteed your subscription fee whilst you continually go back to "The Depths of Smeg" hoping that "Thag the Indestructible" drops his "Mighty Belt of ShegWeg".

thats not true at all
mmorpg designers create endgame content to challenge other players

I raided in Everquest for 6 years and WoW for 1 year

I have raiding context too

anyhow
I'm not comparing GW to raiding -- I'm saying the GW is nothing similar to raiding

Nexus Icon · Dec 04, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

Nexus, the Domain of Anguish IS part of the elite mission..

when you go in it flashes a nice big "Elite Mission" sign under it's name. I do not expect the part past the gate keeper to be much different. Though I would be glad to be wrong and find a 12 man party into something even harder.

Eh, who cares about semantics, I've already decided it's not worth my time.
I just don't want to see ANet thinking of this as a success and a good model for future content.
The only people who are happy with this are those who have got the time to spend doing it.

Omega X · Dec 04, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

OMG my Wammo can't beat this alone, oh no!

Wahahaha!

Seriously, I am just waiting and doing different things until some "popular" build born; The only character I have in Domain of Anguish is an ele, and I really think the eles will be included in that "popular" build

Note: I LOVE the difficulty of Domain of Anguish, I even think I want a MORE difficulty; The only problem is the rest of the game is now too easy. I completed Gate of Madness alone with heroes/henchies and mastered it, and if I go and play the rest of the game with that build, it's just plain and easy; Maybe I must start doing missions with reduced team or something (better drops) or wait for new difficult areas like Domain of Anguish

Thank you!

I think its time for a difficulty setting. So you can put it on insane and ANET can take the gloves off of the AI and put 34 lvl 28s a mob.

unspokenglory · Dec 04, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

nexus is that all you do ? find excusses on why you can't do it and whine about how anet gave pver's a challange ? O.o i think thats about all ive seen you say repeating your with every question asked to you .. please do us a favor and stop whining and instead of joining the ammount of people complaining and getting upset that a-net gave us a challlange that alot of people asked for contribute to the finding better builds to move threw this area faster then sitting on your arse and complaining that you cant do it period

Nexus Icon · Dec 04, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

thats not true at all
mmorpg designers create endgame content to challenge other players

I raided in Everquest for 6 years and WoW for 1 year

I have raiding context too

anyhow
I'm not comparing GW to raiding -- I'm saying the GW is nothing similar to raiding

Yeah, you keep thinking that whilst "SoE / Blizzard / Insert Random MMORPG developer name here" keeps taking your subscription every month.

And I think GW is becoming more like raiding to satisfy those who have come from such games, and that's not a good thing. GW should be different.

Ninna · Dec 04, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

I suppose UW/FOW was *finished* the 1st week it was out too...

unspokenglory · Dec 04, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I suppose UW/FOW was *finished* the 1st week it was out too...

actually ninna it wasnt it got alot of what doa is getting now .. it's to hard it's impossible etc.. intill after a few weeks of it being out and people figuring builds out and posting "Cookie Cutters" then it became easy to those who complained for weeks and weeks on end like now ...